The housekeeper noticed that our Thanksgiving guest took back the salad that she had brought. She asked, “Is that the American custom?” I told her that it doesn’t mean anything bad for Americans. I told her that I offered to make the guest a to-go plate but she insisted on taking what she wanted. I said that was fine because if I made her a plate she might throw away the stuff she didn’t want to eat, so this way she got everything that would be useful for her and nothing gets wasted. I said I know this looks weird to desi people, but to me it doesn’t matter. We don’t have the same rules for formalities, not that we don’t have formalities, it’s just that our rules are different. She said “yep, well in India the guest should leave her dish and be offered a plate to take home and you should make the plate.” “Yep, I know.” I said. “If you did what your guest did for Indians you would seem like a cheapo,” she said. The housekeeper was weirded out by my American guest and my behavior.
So later I told my husband. I said, the housekeeper was weirded out that our guest took her salad back. And also that she made her own to-go plate. “Yes, American thinking.” He said it in kind of a pejorative way. “Think about yourself and only take what you want.” I said, “That’s good, what’s wrong with that? I know my friend diets all the time and she probably would have thrown away everything else. So what she took was what was useful for her.” “Yes, they only do what is useful for them.” he says.
I just remained silent. That was an indirect barb. Why does he have to pick on my culture? I have some negative impressions of some desi stuff, but I see it in the big picture as being part of a cultural context and fitting in there. I don’t whine about it to my husband. I never mention it actually. (although I do blog about it sometimes, I guess) But I never criticize him for it. I mean, it is HIS culture. Why should I pick on him? So why does he have to pick on me? I am kind of irritated by that. I know Americans look kind of ungenerous, or you could say stingy, compared to people from cultures which highly value displays of generosity to guests. It is just a different concept of what “making someone feel at home” means when they are a guest in your home. Some stuff desis do looks pretty weird or inappropriate to me, too through American eyes. I mean, it is all culturally relative. One way is not better than the other. There are just different ways of doing things which are appropriate in their specific contexts.
I think he is very “Westernized,” but some stuff about him is very desi. I am very very American in my thinking and manners. I think I have picked up some of the Pakistani hospitality stuff, but to tell you the truth, it isn’t the real me. It is mostly forced and fake. I just do it to seem like less of a space alien to any desis who come over. I mean, I AM a foreigner. I think my manners have gotten more generous over the years. But I am still an American at the core (I am not saying that Americans aren’t generous, but the way we treat guests would be considered to be lacking outside of our cultural boundaries). Why should I give someone a plate full of food that she won’t eat? I’ll just let her take what she wants. And I seriously did not think twice that she took her salad back until the housekeeper mentioned it to me. And I just hate that my husband uses stuff like that to sort of indirectly put me down cuz I know he wishes I could behave more “desi” in that respect. Sigh.
November 24, 2007 at 10:47 am
Too cute, LF!
I love that I’m an all American girl. Yep, I’ve picked up on some nice ‘hospitality ways’ here, but like you – at the core I’m just a simple mid-western!
Some things that weird me out here is how people will enter your house and tell you, “Turn on/off the AC!” Or, before they even sit their bootie on the sofa, they’re all like, “Get me water!” No please, no nice tone. I find it extremely rude. One other thing that bothers me is that when you tell someone come on over to visit sometimes, you better mean it ’cause your doorbell will be ringing five minutes later! Ugh.
November 24, 2007 at 4:10 pm
yep i had some issues in Oman, too. Like people just walk in without even knocking on the door and stuff. Expecting guests to call first before coming is just way out of the question. But yes, I do see the benefits and graciousness of being hospitible, so I have picked up on some stuff. Otherwise I would just seem like a rude ogre. Hmmm, one Omani thing I do is keep perfumes and oils in the guest bathroom for guests to apply after a meal. I don’t pass around perfume or bukhoor after the meal or anything hardcore. But at least it is in the bathroom for whoever wants it.
November 24, 2007 at 9:31 pm
I think, actually, that you have to look at it the other way. It is much more generous of the host to allow the person to take the item he/she wants in order to make them happy (at the risk of them taking what you, the host, actually wants.)
I am way too American, and it shows when I got to DH’s family’s home…they are in amazement (and I guess I seem rude) that I defer and don’t ask for tea or something to drink or eat.
November 25, 2007 at 2:44 am
This is the way it is in a bi-cultural marriage. I run into the same issue of my husband putting down my culture and indirectly me. I think I’ve changed too but still very American!
November 26, 2007 at 1:18 am
Salaam Alaikum,
Whatever we like to label ourselves we are all products of our environments, for good or bad.
Mr Outlines once and only once made such a remark about “Western Thinking” in a way I found disrespectful to me. I explained that I found it disrespectful and that he must remember our children, insha Allah will be half British half Syrian, so they must see that we respect both cultures, otherwise they will not feel comfortable in themselves and their own identity
Alhamdulilah, he got my point. I think it helps that he is living here and that he is aware of the negatives as well as the positives in his own culture.
I think respect of each others cultures is vital for a bi-cultural marriage and I talked about that a lot in my latest post.
November 26, 2007 at 2:21 am
As Salaamu Alaikum!
When I first became a Muslim, I was always bringing my dishes home from the masjid. Untouched! Why? Because they didn’t like most American food, lol. At first I was a little offended, but then it was OK. I now bring things they or the kids like, such as soda, candies, pizza, or a nice salad. Thank God most people like salad! I must admit that I like their food better than American food
No matter how I try, I can’t get it to turn out tasting the same.
November 26, 2007 at 8:17 pm
Manal and I are very open about this sort of thing. It also helps to have people around you who understand.
I remember once having some friends over and I offered them something to drink, tea, soda, water, whatever.
My wife told me later that I really should not have asked, I should have just offered.
Anyway, customs vary from place to place. You mention people just showing up at your door in Oman. Saudis would never do such a thing. Not the ones I have met or know anyway. You might never know what position you might catch people in.
I remember my father in law kicking out a Morrocan lady we knew for this very reason, showing up without even calling ahead of time. Not that he liked her anyway…….but showing up unannounced was over the top.
We had a Jordanian lady show up at our house at 11 in the morning once and Manal was more than a bit upset about it and commented on how such a thing showed just what kind of an upbringing she had.
Seems to me that a lot of this is class conscious as well. Here in the USA there are different customs and mode of conduct based on what socio-economic scale you come from.
Manal and I are very open about the issues we have with each other’s cultures. We joke about it, me calling her the Middle Eastern FOB and her calling me an uncivilised American.
It is all in fun, but it is very important to be open about everything in a marriage, including this.
November 27, 2007 at 5:23 am
I must admit… when it comes to treating guests in a certain way.. I looove the American culture! To me it just seems so much more straight-forward, direct and hassle-free. Now I’m at a point where I couldn’t be bothered to argue or insist for hours as is normal in the desi culture (Please have something to drink.. plz plz plz.. no no have it.. no no i brought it.. no no warna i’ll be sad… etc)…… I just can’t do it anymore. I’ve become very American that way and I know it offends my desi guests but I don’t live my life to please other people and incidentally enough – my dad taught me this stuff. My dad who’s as unAmerican as could be! haha
November 27, 2007 at 3:52 pm
I actually like the *western* way though pple would consider me a *sell-out* but I think in religion this is what is really expected. Some of my favourite things are, Please call ahead if you are to come at someone’s house. Don’t call(phone)too early in the morning or after a certain time(dinner) unless it is an emergency. Don’t give opinions are your thoughts unless you are asked to(yes, our culture is full of *teachers*). I remember once someone came to my home and I asked what they would have(as abu-sinan wrote) and my mom got really upset and told me next time I should just offer them, my reply was what if they wouldn’t want what I offered? Atleast I could get them what they really wanted. I guess it’s just a thin line between cultures. sf
November 28, 2007 at 4:18 am
Yep I know there isn’t just one way for Americans. I mean, my parents are from NYC and I grew up in the deep south, the customs and rules of hospitality are different as well. Same with desis, that is a huge generalization. And even in a smaller nation like Oman there are differences between regions and also groups, like Bedo ppl are way different than ppl Muscat urbanites and different from Zanzibaris and all. But still there are some general commonalities among Americans that are different from general desi behavior.
November 29, 2007 at 2:45 am
I have had cultural issues with my husband to. My husband is also westernized but still has alot of those Egyptian culture habbits in him. I deal with them for the most part, but it can get agravating. Hubby doesn’t seem to mind my cultural things to much. But I am an adapter so maybe I have just adapted to his culture more. Who knows lol. I don’t see anything wrong with people making their own plate, but maaybe you could meet in the middle by asking them what they would like then make it for them. Or kind of pay attention to what they eat them prepare the plate with the foods you seen them eat.
December 9, 2007 at 12:31 am
He only married the “Muslim” you. A pity he didnt realise and open his mind and heart to the fact that he was marrying an American Muslim woman. He will learn soon enough not to denigrate. Never fear, the School of Hard Knocks is here (or atleast around the corner)!
I dont find desis to be particularly honestly and sincerely generous either. ‘Tis pretty much about all about “show-shaa”.
December 9, 2007 at 8:18 am
Don’t Desis often take the parts they want WITHIN a dish? Such as taking the part of the gajrela that has all the almonds? Or taking extra frosting when getting cake and leaving the neighboring pieces of cake with less frosting? Or is that just the Desis I know? I told my husband that that is really rude in American culture (bc everyone else wants the almonds, too), but he said that it’s ok in Pakistani culture. Maybe it’s just in his family?
December 11, 2007 at 11:10 am
musical chef he is tricking you! sometimes during intercultural interactions, people blame culture when the truth is that this is just bad behavior. Double dipping a chip would be rude for desis, too.
Hey all, I wanted to emphasize the fact that I don’t want to suggest that the American “way” is better, it is just different and suitable within its own context. The desi way isn’t better or worse.
December 14, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Salaam / Hi,
I found this post really interesting. I find it funny talking about americans or non-desis not being ‘generous’. Desis may be generous but it’s all about one-upmanship. I remember one time given gifts in Pakistan, the first time I met friends of the family. I was shocked that dh’s family would ‘have’ to give a bigger gift back. I don’t give in the expectation of receiving something better back! I give because I want to or can. The same as giving money for weddings or Eid, etc.
I always ask guests if I can get them something. I don’t assume they’ll want pop or chai or water. I ask what I can get them. They’re like, ‘no, no, no’ and dh is like yes, get them something. Sometimes I feel like I’m going between the two but I most often always get them something.
We had a call from dh’s family one night that his sil’s father was coming the next morning. We were up all night preparing for him, got about 2 hours sleep before having to go to the airport only to find out after waiting for a hour that his flight wouldn’t be in until the afternoon. No call to us to let us know. Then he ended up staying with his friend who also picked him up. I couldn’t believe it. I thought it was the rudest thing after all that we had gone through (groceries, new towels, making a room up, trip to airport, etc.).
I had to chuckle when I read someone write about people just showing up. One night (as I’m sick and ready to leave the office and lie down about 8 PM), dh gets a call and a friend’s mother and sister are stopping by in a few minutes for a visit. I made him call them back and tell them I wasn’t feeling well. I know that probably didn’t go over well but I didn’t care (and usually, I’m a yes girl). We did go to visit them the week after so hopefully it made up for it but we did give them a few days notice!
I find desi’s generally don’t have anything nice to say about non-desi’s. It urks me and I don’t put up with it. It’s not like desi’s are perfect… sorry but some cheat, drink, etc. – so they are not perfect and able to judge others.
Anyway, thanks for letting me join in on the ‘venting’ or sharing.
Peace and Blessings…
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